2025 Doxacon Lay Keynote speaker M.R. Leonard joins host Cindy Collins Smith to discuss his first contact novel Pilgrims and some “must see / must watch” science fiction. Along the way, the conversation turns to influences on the novel, what would happen if Catholic (or Orthodox) aliens visited Earth, why secular-oriented gamers fell in love with an overtly Christian novel, and how we can baptize the culture through reclaiming the science fiction space.