Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick: Welcome to the Orthodox Engagement podcast. Today, my guest is Fr. Paul Abernathy, who is a priest in the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America, the pastor of St. Moses the Black Orthodox Church in Pittsburgh, and he’s also the founder and Chief Executive Officer of the Neighborhood Resilience Project in the Hill District of Pittsburgh. Father Paul, welcome to Orthodox Engagement. Christ is Risen!



Fr. Paul Abernathy: Indeed He is Risen, Fr. Andrew! So good to be with you.



Fr. Andrew: [laughter] Amen. So last summer, when protests and also violence spread all over America in the wake of the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis, Fr. Paul’s face was seen and his voice was heard on a lot of interviews done by Orthodox Christian media. But his work did not begin then. He’s been faithfully laboring for the past decade in the Hill District of Pittsburgh, where he lives with his family, building what is called the Neighborhood Resilience Project. So, Father, this show is about long-form conversations to get us inside at least a piece of somebody’s life and the work that they’re doing. So, before we talk about your work, I’d like us to get to know you. So, you know, where did you grow up? How would you describe your family background?



Fr. Paul: Absolutely. Well, I was actually born in Fort Carson, Colorado. My mother and father were both in the Army, so I was born on that Army base. But I was only there for 9 months and my mother was discharged from the Army, came back to Pittsburgh. I grew up about 8 miles outside of the city in an area that was a very fascinating area, a little township [called] South Fayette. It was kind of a middle/low income township. There were a lot of low-income whites and there were housing projects that were predominantly Black. And many of the people in those housing projects, interestingly enough, had originally come from the Hill District. They had been moved into these housing projects as a result of urban renewal. I was not raised Orthodox, but I was raised in a very devout Christian household. And my mother, who as far as I can remember, was actually a single mother, social worker, very devout… my sister and I, she raised us with our grandparents, just had a beautiful childhood experience, so much love. But I learned from my family what really it meant, not only to love God but to love our neighbor, and so having that example of service that was inspired by Christian faith was a very key aspect of my childhood formation.



Fr. Andrew: Now if I remember correctly, your ethnic background—and correct me if I’m wrong about this—you’re Black on your father’s side and Syrian on your mother’s side. Is that right?



Fr. Paul: Yeah, that’s correct. And, you know, it’s fascinating, I would say there’s a lot of similarities between, really, the two cultures.

Fr. Andrew: Oh, really?

Fr. Paul: Yes, yes. Fascinatingly enough, when I was in the summer between my junior and senior year of college—I was an International Studies major—I had the opportunity to actually go and study at the University of Aleppo in Syria and went and had a phenomenal experience. It was the summer of 2000. When I came home, I actually then went into what was called the Mother Jones House. It was at Wheeling Jesuit University. It was a house that was located in a predominantly Black section of Wheeling, West Virginia—East Wheeling—and to live there, you had to do a minimum amount of community service that was classwork that went along with that and it ends up being very helpful for the ministry that I’m doing here today. What’s so fascinating about that year is that I really got this perspective that the way many Americans think about the Middle East is very similar to the way many Americans think about African-Americans.

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: And it seems like these two issues are very often issues that many people have very strong opinions on. And so, from that point in my life, I think really I understood there are certain similarities and experiences, and even to some degree, culture.

Fr. Andrew: Hmm, hmm. And it’s my understanding also that the Abernathy part of your name actually is attached to people with a little bit of notoriety in American history. Can you say something about that?

Fr. Paul: Yes. [sigh] Well, you know, I did not grow up with my father. I didn’t have a chance to be so close to this history other than from what, really, I had always been told, that I was related to the Rev. Ralph Abernathy. And of course, the Rev. Ralph Abernathy was Martin Luther King’s right-hand man. Of course, he’s known as Rev. Martin Luther King’s right-hand man to history. Really, Rev. Ralph Abernathy was Martin Luther King’s… initially, he was his mentor.

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: Beautiful thing about him was he understood the gift that Martin Luther King had and really had the humility to step back. You know, someone asked very recently, “How do we find leaders who are prepared to step forward?” I really reflected on so much of my experience in the community. Sometimes, meetings were inundated with people who were trying to be, trying to step forward, put themselves out there. And, you know, I was thinking about the Rev. Ralph Abernathy. My response to that was, “Sometimes it’s not knowing when to step forward, sometimes it’s about knowing when to step backward.”



Fr. Andrew: Yeah. [laughter]

Fr. Paul: And really understanding that sometimes we’re called to a particular kind of leadership. Sometimes we’re called to a particular kind of direction. And, you know, I think that humility by way of humble leadership is important. It’s always been very inspiring to me. And also I think this idea that certainly whenever there is injustice as a result of sin that the pathway forward has got to be one that’s deeply rooted in our Christian faith, one that is deeply rooted in a quest for not only justice, but reconciliation. One that is deeply rooted in the unconditional love of God. And so it’s a very proud heritage, you know, for me, the Abernathy family. I remember one time—many of my family, they live in Atlanta, Georgia—and I remember one time there was a young man, he had come here to our ministry who, fascinatingly enough, was originally from Atlanta and he had been incarcerated there. And he saw my name and it was clear to me he wasn’t really well-versed in recent history. He had just had these experiences in the streets and spent time in prison. And he said, “You’re an Abernathy.” He said to me, “You know, I met Abernathys when I was in prison.” My first thought was, “Oh, I wonder if he must have been incarcerated with some Abernathys.” And I asked him that. I said, “Were you incarcerated with some Abernathys?” He said, “No. I was visited by Abernathys.” And, you know, it made a very deep impression on me.

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: It’s very consistent with the legacy and heritage of my family. And so I’m very blessed. And you know, one of the things that’s really fascinating too—really, actually beautiful to me—that somebody had said to me at one particular point in time, “Abernathy… That’s a really big Baptist name, isn’t it?” And, you know, when I thought about it, I thought about our legacy and I thought about the work that we’re doing in the church, and I thought about the name going forward, and I thought, “You know what, yes, it has been and now my hope is that it’s known as an Orthodox name.”

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: And, you know, this is my prayer. I believe it’s very consistent with the history that my family has.

Fr. Andrew: Yeah. So you said earlier that you did not grow up as an Orthodox Christian. But you’re Orthodox Christian now. So… would you mind telling us how that came to be?

Fr. Paul: [pause] Yes, well, you know, it’s interesting, because on my Syrian side of the family, they initially were Orthodox when they came to the United States. I believe, like so many other families with Orthodox roots, here there were many who went into other Christian traditions in large part because they didn’t have regular access to churches is what happened in so many instances. And so, my family certainly has that experience. You know, I was raised up in the Catholic church and I went to Wheeling Jesuit University, really had a beautiful experience there. What happened was I had had some brief exposure to the Orthodox Church growing up and when I really reflect on my journey, it was clear to me that these small experiences that I had, through extended family, were really quite powerful. At the time, perhaps, I didn’t necessarily put it into words. But what really happened to me was the summer between my junior and senior year, as I had referenced earlier, going to study at the University of Aleppo in Aleppo, Syria, I really—I was a Christian at that time and I really wanted to be familiar—because I was going to an unfamiliar culture, really, I mean I’d been around Syrian people, Syrian food, but to be immersed was something totally different.

Fr. Andrew: Hmm. Yeah.

Fr. Paul: I thought that what I would do was I would attend an Antiochian parish just so I could get sort of the flavor of the Syrian kind of Christianity. So I went, more or less, as a matter of observation, perhaps a sociological exercise. And I attended this Divine Liturgy… [laughter]

Fr. Andrew: [laughter]

Fr. Paul: ...at St. George Antiochian Orthodox Church in Bridgeville near where I grew up, actually. And I show up to this Liturgy and there, in this Liturgy, I had this very profound, what I would describe as an encounter with the Living God.

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: It was unlike anything that I’d ever experienced in a church service. And it was just so clear to me in that particular moment that the Living God was present there in that Liturgy. When I left that Liturgy, there was a deep impression on my heart and, you know, going in there, I had not been searching. I had not been searching. So I was very surprised…

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: ...by what I seemed to find, even though I was not searching. That never left me, that experience never left me. And when I came home from Syria, I really began to read as much as I could about the Orthodox Church, certainly in terms of theology, certainly in terms of history. But it was really only a matter of time because I was really just letting my mind catch up to my heart, which was already in Holy Orthodoxy. And so, you know, perhaps the following year later or so, I had been received into the Holy Orthodox Church and for that I am so very grateful to God.

Fr. Andrew: Hmm. So you’re a priest now. But I know that you didn’t graduate from college and then go immediately into seminary. What happened in between there?



Fr. Paul: [pause] Well, when I graduated from college, I ended up getting a job, a really beautiful job actually, at Wheeling Jesuit University. I was a coordinator for community research and project development…

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: …and what was so exciting about that work was not really what I did in that job, it’s really what I learned. [laughter] There was a Jesuit priest who had been the vice president of development—Fr. Dan Joyce was his name—at that particular time, but he was also charged at trying to help fuel some revitalization efforts in the Ohio Valley. Because of course the Ohio Valley and West Virginia had been devastated by the collapse of the steel industry, like…

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: ...so much of Pittsburgh, the region here that I grew up in, very much the same, a very similar story, and in some degree, much more severe because they don’t have the same resources like we have in Pittsburgh. And so, he said, “If I’m going to do this, I need an assistant.” And he had actually tracked me down…

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: [laughter] ...and invited me to come and do this. I think because he knew me—perhaps he’d heard of me—from my work at the time at the Mother Jones House. He wanted somebody who had that kind of mind, so I did that. I didn’t accomplish a lot, but I learned, I really learned a lot from watching—now, he was not an Orthodox priest—but just seeing a priest inspired with this godly love for people who were just suffering so greatly in pretty severe economic depression. And, of course, many of us know the story of drugs and the opioid crisis and how it impacted West Virginia and even how the people in West Virginia, the history really they’ve had about, you know, being, in many ways, abused simply because people viewed them as a means to extract coal and the like. And so…

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: ...It was a very beautiful story of West Virginia, seeing the love of God playing out in the context of a suffering people was very impactful for me. It was, however, short lived, because at the time, I had been in the Army Reserve.

Fr. Andrew: Okay.

Fr. Paul: And I enlisted when I was 17 years old, I enlisted in the Army Reserve, and this was probably my sixth year in the Army Reserve. At that particular time, our unit was called to active duty.

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: It was at the end of 2002, beginning of 2003. Of course, the Army was making big plans for the invasion of Iraq.

Fr. Andrew: Yeah. \

Fr. Paul: So, we were put on alert, mobilized, then we were called to active duty; we were put with the Army’s 3rd Infantry Division. And as things would play out, we ended up crossing into Iraq the very first day of the ground war in March of 2003…

Fr. Andrew: Wow.

Fr. Paul: ...where we remained for a year in combat. So we came home, and I really wanted to… I had this deep consciousness now of the impact of U.S. policy in a very extreme way and really wanted to do something to help. I didn’t know exactly what that looked like, but I came back home and went to graduate school at the University of Pittsburgh, the graduate school of Public and International Affairs, which was such a beautiful experience, because, you know, I would say the majority of the students were not American…

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: ...they were from, you know, all over. There were students from China, from Serbia, from Korea—South Korea, of course—there were students from Ukraine, Russia, all different parts of Europe. We had many students who were from Africa, all across Asia…

Fr. Andrew: Wow.

Fr. Paul: We had South American students. Because the [School of] Public and International Affairs in Pittsburgh had really done a great job with diversity. So I felt very privileged, as being an American, to actually study in that environment.

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: And it was just a very, very beautiful exchange. There were many Orthodox students who were there….

Fr. Andrew: Oh, okay.

Fr. Paul: ...at that time and of course hearing them, you know, talk about their issues… They were believers struggling to do pretty difficult things, whether it be issues with water or conflict resolution, and of course it was very, very inspiring for me. When I was in graduate school, that summer, as part of my graduate school experience, I received a scholarship from the Syro-Lebanon Room here at the University of Pittsburgh to actually return to Syria and this time, I actually got to stay at the Patriarchate of Antioch for 2 months.

Fr. Andrew: Oh, wow!

Fr. Paul: [laughter] Yeah. Again, that was really quite formative because, you know, these Christians were really trying to do something quite positive in Syria in a very difficult time. This particular time, this was the summer of 2005…

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: Of course, the war in Iraq had created some increased tensions in Syria. And Christians, of course, feel the weight of these tensions more than, perhaps, the Sunni population…

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: ...or some other populations. To see them living their faith out in this particular context was, again, so incredibly inspiring and informative and showed me, perhaps, a different kind of, let’s say, example of Orthodox Christianity as manifested in very difficult environments. I came home and spent the year doing various non-profit work after I graduated from graduate school. I focused primarily on issues around the Middle East when I felt the call to go to seminary.

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: I went to St. Tikhon’s Orthodox Theological Seminary and the rest, you might say, is history.

Fr. Andrew: [laughter]

Fr. Paul: [laughter]

Fr. Andrew: [laughter] Indeed. And I think that that is when I met you, when you were studying at St. Tikhon’s, if I remember correctly. That’s my earliest memory of you, anyway. [laughter]

Fr. Paul: Yeah, and I think that’s right, Father. Absolutely.

Fr. Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You got there shortly after I graduated, because I graduated in 2007. We didn’t overlap at all, but when did you start there?

Fr. Paul: That’s right. So you graduated in 2007, and I started… that fall is when I arrived…

Fr. Andrew: There it is.

Fr. Paul: ...at seminary. It was very helpful, Father, to see you there, to know that [laughter] not only was graduation possible…

Fr. Andrew: [laughter] Even for someone like me!

Fr. Paul: No!

Fr. Andrew: [laughter]

Fr: Paul: But, you always certainly brought the warmth, the joy, the energy, very inspiring, that you brought to us, Father. So I’m grateful for those days.

Fr. Andrew: Thank God. Thank God. So, okay, so you graduated from St. Tikhon’s in 2010, and then what?

Fr. Paul: Mm-hmm. Fascinatingly, at that particular time, I really felt called—I was not ordained, I was a single fella at the time—I was trying to discern what my next step was.

Fr. Andrew: Yeah.

Fr. Paul: I really did want to come, I really did want to do some outreach and Bishop Thomas was so incredibly supportive of that. He had been always encouraging me, always had given me strong direction, almost exhortation, to go and do this kind of outreach ministry, that this was our Orthodox faith in action. And that, of course, he was personally committed to support any way that he could…

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: It was always very meaningful to me. But I did not know how it would happen. And so, when I graduated, I was driving the bishop, as newly graduated unmarried seminarians often do…

Fr. Andrew: [laughter] Yeah.

Fr. Paul: ...driving the bishop [laughter]

Fr. Andrew: And I have to say though, before you finish this, on this other side of your family, you’re related to him, right?

Fr. Paul: [laughter] Well, that’s right. So what it is is my great-grandfather and his grandfather were brothers. So we’re distant cousins, although we really do have a very familial relationship, for which I’m deeply grateful…

\

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: ...for, and the love that I have for him, and the love that he’s shared for me, has been very meaningful.

Fr. Andrew: Alright, so you’re driving your second cousin once removed. I just worked that out in my head there.

Fr. Paul: [laughter] I’m happy you have, Father. I’m going to have to use that.

Fr. Andrew: You can write that down, yeah.

Fr. Paul: [laughter]

Fr. Andrew: So you’re driving him, and then what?

Fr. Paul: [laughter] Okay, and fascinatingly enough, you don’t know this, but I believe that I was driving him at your parish is exactly when this story happens. I was driving him to your parish and actually, I believe, I think we were driving from a service that we had just done at your parish, so that’s when it happens. We had just been at Vespers with you, Father, and we’re in the car, we’re driving, I was driving the Bishop, and I’m trying to think about how I can start this outreach ministry and I wanted, really, to do it in Pittsburgh because Pittsburgh certainly is my home.

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: And so we just had this very beautiful service, got in the car. I think we were even still in the parking lot of your parish in Emmaus at that time, Father, when Bishop Thomas’s phone rings. And [laughter] he answers the phone and he’s having this conversation—with whom, I did not know. But he’s listening intently, and I hear, picking up, gleaning things from the conversation, something about outreach, something about ministry, Orthodox Pittsburgh… And he looks at me…

Fr. Andrew: [chuckle] I know that look.

Fr. Paul: ...and he says, “You have my blessing, but I have the guy.” He said, “I have the perfect guy for this, and if you take this guy, you have my blessing.” And as it turns out, it was Fr. Justin Mathewes, who was calling from FOCUS North America because there were some Orthodox Christians in Pittsburgh who were having a serious conversation about what it would look like to support some kind of outreach ministry in Pittsburgh.

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: And among them were Theodora Polamalu, and of course, her husband Troy, Superbowl champion and of course, now, NFL Hall-of-Famer. The Polamalus were… At that time, this was the heights of Steelers glory, there was a lot of excitement that they were organizing, that they were bringing people together to have this conversation. And it gave people a lot of confidence in this kind of thing.

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: So, that really began a conversation. I was connected to the people here, in Pittsburgh, who were having a conversation around wanting to support some kind of Orthodox outreach ministry. From those conversations emerged FOCUS Pittsburgh. Now here’s what’s interesting, Father: I remember one time, in seminary, there’s 2 brothers in seminary and they were really supportive of everything, they wanted to encourage me to do outreach in the Black community. And so they came to me and they said, “We think this is really great, we hope you do it.” Then they said, “How will you do it?” And you know, Father, I had really no idea how I would do it. [laughter] I thought, “There’s just so many things that would have to go right.” But I thought in that moment, what just came to me was, “It’s really not my job to figure out how, it’s only my job at this particular point to prepare.”

Fr. Andrew: Hmm. Yeah.

Fr. Paul: Now remember that. ‘Cause in seminary, that’s really what I thought. Okay, I don’t know exactly how, but the idea is to prepare. And of course, you went to St. Tikhon’s; we had this beautiful formation, this beautiful experience being shaped by the services, the theology of the Church. So I always remember that and just focusing on the services, focusing on the prayer, focusing on the Scriptures, focusing on the Fathers. And, as it all unfolded, I didn’t have to know how…

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: ...because the Lord made a way. We didn’t have any money, okay, to do this, because that was the other question. We didn’t have any money to do this. So the Polamalus… Theodora, she said, “Well, here’s what we’ll do.” There was a group of ladies here locally from Philoptochos who were willing to host a dinner to raise money. Of course, we knew as these dinners go, we wouldn’t raise enough money to start this whole thing.

Fr. Andrew: Yeah.

Fr. Paul: We thought, “Well, something’s better than nothing.” Theodora Polamalu, she said, “Well, I will come and speak. I can speak.” People thought she would be a great keynote speaker to endorse this initiative. And she said, “If we do it on a Tuesday, Troy would be able to come, because that’s his off day.” And so, of course, we thought that be great. It would be great if Troy Polamalu came, obviously, with Theodora. So we scheduled Tuesday. And she said, “Well also, if you can do a Tuesday at the end of January, the season will be over, so that’s even better.” So we did it the last Tuesday of January. And this was, I think, 2011. And so, you know, we’re planning this event in the fall of 2010, planning the event, and as we’re planning the event, the Steelers, you know, they keep winning!

Fr. Andrew: [laughter] Oh.

Fr. Paul: They keep winning, they keep winning, okay? So Father, as it turns out, the Tuesday that we chose for the event would end up being the very Tuesday before the Steelers were in the Super Bowl.

Fr. Andrew: Oh man. [laughter]

Fr. Paul: And I had thought…

Fr. Andrew: Wow.

Fr. Paul: ...when this whole conversation began about we’ll have a dinner, we’ll have, like, a church dinner. I had thought, “Maybe we’ll raise a few thousand dollars.” What ended up happening was there was this Super Bowl frenzy that gripped the city…

Fr. Andrew: [laughter]

Fr. Paul: People had heard Troy Polamalu was at this Greek Orthodox church, there were police that were trying to keep people out…

Fr. Andrew: [laughter] Oh man.

Fr. Paul: ...so many people, they said, “We’re going to have to shut the fire inspector down.” Certainly it was a full house. [laughter] They were auctioning off jerseys that Troy Polamalu had signed and bidding’s 5000 dollars, 6000 dollars…

Fr. Andrew: Wow.

Fr. Paul: ...for jerseys, and footballs, and all of this. And Father, by the time the evening ended, we had enough money to start the whole thing and essentially run it for at least a year.

Fr. Andrew: Whoa.

Fr. Paul: And it was a miracle from God.

Fr. Andrew: Wow.

Fr. Paul: And I think there’s no way that I could ever have planned that, nor could anyone have. And I thought, even in that moment, back to that initial conversation in seminary that I didn’t have to know how, just had to be faithful. And I’m so very grateful that the very first step that I took was a step of faith because it meant… You know, I think it would have been different if someone would’ve said, “Here’s a million dollars, go start a ministry.”

Fr. Andrew: Yeah.

Fr. Paul: When you say, “Let’s start a ministry,” and don’t have two pennies to rub together, and then the Lord does something like this. Now the Steelers, interestingly enough, go on to lose that Super Bowl, but I believe that they lost because their work [laughter] had already been accomplished…

Fr. Andrew: [laughter]

Fr. Paul: [laughter] ...starting the Lord’s ministry.

Fr. Andrew: Although I do understand that the people of the Pittsburgh area are interested in football. [laughter]

Fr. Paul: [laughter] It is… That is an understatement. That is exactly right.

Fr. Andrew: [laughter] Some kind of towel involved, I don’t know…

Fr. Paul: [laughter] Yes, it’s the Terrible Towel.

Fr. Andrew: Yeah, I always tell people, you know, I was raised very successfully to be a nerd…

Fr. Paul: [laughter] Yes, thank God.

Fr. Andrew: My father sometimes is like, “I love sports, what happened to you?” I’m like, “Is that the game with the pointy ball, right?”

Fr. Paul: [laughter]

Fr. Andrew: [laughter]

Fr. Paul: Father, I’ll tell you this story from seminary. I don’t know, do you remember Father Pedro, from Brazil?

Fr. Andrew: From Brazil, yes, right? Yeah!

Fr. Paul: I’ll tell you a beautiful story about Fr. Pedro. Sunday was the one time we could get the Steelers game. We decided to put it on, you know, Sunday evening at the seminary, if possible. So we were watching the game. Father Pedro, from Brazil, of course didn’t have any knowledge…

Fr. Andrew: [laughter]

Fr. Paul: ...of American football.

Fr. Andrew: Yeah.

Fr. Paul: So he came in, which he never really did. He came in, he sat down…

Fr. Andrew: Oh boy.

Fr. Paul: ...he was watching the game for a little while, and of course there was, you know, the tackling and the whole thing which was happening. And so he watched maybe no more than 7 minutes, completely silent. Then all of a sudden, he said during one of the breaks, he says, “If I was the coach, I would give everybody a ball so no one would have to fight for it.”

Fr. Andrew: [laughter]

Fr. Paul: I said, “Well, that is a very beautiful perspective, Father.” [laughter]

Fr. Andrew: Oh man.

Fr. Paul: Yes. [laughter]

Fr. Andrew: Alright, so you come back home to Pittsburgh, and…

Fr. Paul: Yes.

Fr. Andrew: ...you start the work, right? So, did you… now, my understanding is that you moved there. Did you move to the Hill District immediately or…?

Fr. Paul: Yes.

Fr. Andrew: So, okay, so why did you do that? Why did you move there?

Fr. Paul: Yes, well, it’s interesting. Because… there are a lot of folks in these communities… People who live in these communities, people who grow up in these communities, one thing that’s really difficult for them to see is people come and people go. There’s a lot of people who try to help the community from outside the community and, in many ways, I believe people are really looking for a commitment and they want to know if you say really you love them, it’s not as significant as if you show them that you love them. And these are people that have had, not only in their own lives, but even across many generations, I would say, they have the experience of broken promises.

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: You know, and I’m talking at every level beginning within their families and going on to their communities and even at the national level. They have this experience of broken promises. And so they’re not easy to trust. The amount of trauma that’s in their experience is quite significant.

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: So I understood this. You know, I knew this, I had known this and I knew that in order to really have an effective ministry that I had to live among them and be among them. I remember, years later, Metropolitan Joseph talking about when he had lived among the Lebanese who had suffered as a result of the civil war and taking, really, that suffering on as a shepherd and how important that was. You know, and I believe that’s very much consistent with my heritage, with what I have learned, known, coming into this ministry. So understanding the Hill District was really the right place to have a ministry. I knew it was also necessary, not only important, but really necessary, to be in the community, to live in the community, and demonstrate that I was willing to call this community home. And I will tell you too, Father, it’s… whenever you live in the community, I think there’s also… you know, I want to say that there’s, you know, the ministry is nearer even to yourself, which is important, I think…

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: ...if you think in terms of, if you watch the news and you see oh, there was another boy killed in the Hill District, how terrible! It’s very different than if it’s just 2 streets down from you…

Fr. Andrew: Yeah.

Fr. Paul: ...or if you hear the gunshots. And just this sense of urgency it creates and understanding what the impact of that is, you know, the perspective. For all of those reasons, I knew it was necessary to live in the community. You know, and of course that creates the opportunity to spend more time, obviously, in the community as well—no commute, there’s more time in the community. And so it’s been, certainly, a beautiful experience and I love the Hill District very much and this community has been very, very good to me and very, very good to my family.

Fr. Andrew: Yeah, so somewhere along the path here, you got married, right?

Fr. Paul: [laughter] Yes, that’s right.

Fr. Andrew: How did you meet your wife?

Fr. Paul: [laughter] This is very similar to the story about how the ministry started. I didn’t know how… People were giving me all this advice, all this advice about dating, all this advice about finding the right… Because, Father, there’s one thing I’ve learned: whenever you graduate seminary as an unmarried, single seminarian, your dating life becomes Archdiocesan business.

Fr. Andrew: [laughter]

Fr. Paul: I’ve learned this, I’ve learned this.

Fr. Andrew: [laughter] Yes, it does.

Fr. Paul: Beautiful story. When I graduated from St. Tikhon’s, that weekend, that Saturday we graduated, the next Sunday Fr. Anthony Sabbagh, who you know well…

Fr. Andrew: I do.

Fr. Paul: ...in Allentown, he had me come at the end of Liturgy to the solea in the church, and he—the whole church, packed, of course—he said, “Okay, Paul has graduated from seminary, very proud of him. He is also not married, so if anybody knows any high-caliber women…”

Fr. Andrew: Ha! [laughter]

Fr. Paul: That’s what he said: “high-caliber women, come see me after the Liturgy.”

Fr. Andrew: [laughter]

Fr. Paul: And of course, people got a real kick out of that. [laughter] So, the whole question is how, you know how, right? I was visiting a family here in Pittsburgh, Orthodox family, and there was this debate that ensued about how I was going to find my wife, you know. Beautiful Syrian family, Orthodox, very devout family. And they were trying to give me advice, but they were really talking to each other about what I should do and the best perspective forward…

Fr. Andrew: [laughter]

Fr. Paul: You can imagine the scene. And so, there was one woman, she was sitting there and listening to all of this and she said to me, she said to me at this pause in this exchange, she looked right at me and said, “Don’t listen to them.” She said, “All you need to do is just whatever God wants you to do and you will find your wife.” And I took that, in that moment, just to concentrate on the ministry. That’s how I understood it. So I’ll just keep concentrating on the ministry and if what she says is true, I’ll find my wife. Well, sure enough, we got to a point where we were going to establish a clinic and we needed someone who would run the clinic. This was our first big hire. You know, Bishop Thomas had sent out this big email saying we’re hiring a clinic administrator and of course, at that particular time, I don’t think you’d been to our old place, Father, I don’t believe you have, have you?

Fr. Andrew: No. So, to my embarrassment, I have not been to your facility at all.

Fr. Paul: Oh, well…

Fr. Andrew: I still need to come out there.

Fr. Paul: Well, you certainly have an open invitation, Father. We have a nicer facility now than we had at that particular time. It was a little old shack, it was really run-down. The location was great, however. And it was a perfect place for us to get started. But I also did wonder who would be willing to come work in this little shack and this little Orthodox ministry here. [laughter]

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: Anyhow, Bishop Thomas sent out this email. Shortly thereafter, I had to speak at the College Conference at Antiochian Village. And after Liturgy that Sunday, the dining facility was completely full, of course. I saw Fr. Joel Gillam; he was sitting there at the table. Of course I recognized him and knew him. And I thought, “I’ll go sit with Father Joel.” As it turns out, Kristina—who is now my wife—was his spiritual daughter, who—she was not at College Conference, but she had come up to visit him at that Liturgy and had stayed for lunch. So she’s sitting next to him, I’m sitting across the table from them both and Fr. Joel said to me, “Hey, you still hiring a clinic administrator?” And I said, “Yes, in fact we are.” And so he points to Kristina, and he says, “You need to hire her.” Well, this of course is very awkward because of course I thought, “Well, what if I don’t?” [laughter] I didn’t know anything about her. Like is she qualified?

Fr. Andrew: [laughter]

Fr. Paul: He didn’t say any of that. You know, he just said, “Hire her.”

Fr. Andrew: [laughter]

Fr. Paul: And I did so. I said to her in this very brief exchange, “Well, you can apply online.” I thought that was probably the safest line: “You can apply online.”

Fr. Andrew: Oh! [laughter]

Fr. Paul: Because I didn’t know… I just didn’t know! We had never done this before…

Fr. Andrew: [laughter]

Fr. Paul: I’d never had to hire anybody. So, sure enough she did, and there were multiple candidates. She was by far the most, not only qualified, but impressive. And a woman of deep faith. She’s very devout in her faith. And so she came, and she was not at all deterred from being in this run-down shack in the Hill District. She came in, you know, and saw the place; she was not at all deterred, but rather excited by it. So…

Fr. Andrew: Hmm.

Fr. Paul: We made the decision; she obviously was the best choice. And she joyfully accepted the position. So what happened then was, her and I, there we are in the Hill District, in this run-down shack dealing with some pretty extreme community challenges. And of course, this kind of ministry is not 9 to 5. It almost can get to a point where it never really ceases, and she stayed right in there with it. She was there six, sometimes seven days a week, and we were there together, doing this ministry. And through this experience, we built this really incredible friendship and it just became apparent one day that this was really of God and that this would be a really beautiful union. We were being called to one another. Bishop Thomas was very supportive of the idea and, [laughter] seeing this unfold, seeing our friendship unfold, had encouraged me. He said, he was telling me, “This is of the Holy Spirit, man. You’ve got to get yourself together.” [laughter]

Fr. Andrew: This is a high-caliber woman!

Fr. Paul: [laughter] Yeah, this is a high-caliber woman, yes.

Fr. Andrew: [laughter]

Fr. Paul: [laughter] So, thank God, thank God. And so we…

Fr. Andrew: Yeah.

Fr. Paul: We got married, and… So we’ve been laboring in the ministry, we have two beautiful children, Thomas and Katherine. And of course, she would then help me found the parish of St. Moses the Black and so, thank God. It’s been very blessed.

Fr. Andrew: That wraps up the first part of my interview with Fr. Paul Abernathy. Be sure to tune in next time to hear the conclusion.